MR CORPO PODCAST

Getting people to say YES is a skill. Getting people to say YES YES YES vs. NO NO NO is the difference between spending your life stuck in middle management or quickly moving up the food chain to the executive ranks. MR CORPO explains how starting small, being organized and anticipating people's concerns can ensure that you always get approval for your projects and budgets. Whether it is your boss, your co-worker, your wife or your son the same rules apply when it comes to making it easy for people to say YES!

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Ben Brooks is an executive career coach, and the founder of the career coaching tech firm (PILOT),  who challenges MR CORPO to de-emphasize titles and money in favor of maximizing experiences early in your career. He introduces the idea of being an "intrepreneur" -- meaning you can think and act like a business owner in your existing job. Ben also explains why the curiosity deficit is the enemy of businesses big and small. He reveals how to get a "secret promotion" and says other smart stuff like "make the right thing to do, the easy thing to do." He is also prone to #humblebrag on occasion (for good reason). You can find him @benbrooksny on social media and his company PILOT is http://pilot.coach

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FULL TRANSCRIPT:

JUSTIN: That's the sound of the man working on the chain gang. That's the sound of the man working on the chain gang.

 (Intro music)

JUSTIN: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mr. Corpo podcast. We have a super special guest today. His name is Ben Brooks. He is an executive coach who charges upwards of a thousand dollars or more. And he sold out. So when you're listening to this 30-minute podcast, think of it as getting a free 500 dollar coaching session. Or something like that. We don't have to talk exact number. He's a Corpo high-flyer, having worked at Enterprise Rent-a-Car, Lockheed Martin, which is a fantastic name. No matter what he did there, it sounds impressive.

BEN: Absolutely.

JUSTIN: Uh, you're not supposed to talk yet, Ben. But okay. He's also the founder of a tech startup. He's an entrepreneur. His company's called Pilot. I'll let him tell you more about that later. And at one point -- and actually, the first time I met Ben, I thought, this is the most interesting person I've ever met in New York City. And then I thought, that was far too big of a compliment to give one human being. So I'm gonna peel it back a little bit, Ben, and say you're like a top three, top five, in New York City. Let me stop there and let me introduce the topic for today. Or maybe you want to introduce the topic today, Ben. What is our topic for today's Mr. Corpo podcast?

BEN: So today's topic is the idea of why you can be an entrepreneur in your career without having to start a business. And this whole topic of being an "intrapreneur." A very, very sexy topic right now. And actually, how being an intrapreneur is the best way to learn to be an entrepreneur, on the infrastructure and dollars of someone else.

JUSTIN: Okay. Now, one of my rules as the host of this show is to kind of dumb down the commentary of our guests to like, the common listener. And I consider myself one of those. So you've just made up a word. It's called intrapreneur. Now, the idea is that you're being an entrepreneur inside of a company. So this is one of those Corpo-speak words that's really trending right now. People are talking about it. But I think it's an interesting topic. Because especially in today's world, you look around, and all anyone talks about when you're talking about working and being young and starting businesses is, hey, you have to be a tech startup who's worth a billion dollars or you don't count for anything. So what you're saying is, even inside of a small, medium, or big company, you can act and think like an entrepreneur. Is that a good summary?

BEN: Yeah, and in fact, this is the best way to be even successful at a big company, even if you don't want to be an entrepreneur. Acting like one at a company is a killer success strategy.

JUSTIN: Okay, make it real for me. What does that mean?

BEN: So being an entrepreneur, a lot of it's about being comfortable being uncertain, doing things you're not good at, learning super quickly, taking a massive amount of responsibility and a wide view, and really spotting opportunity. And so to have that hustle, to have that focus, is something that, frankly, is pretty unique at big companies. And so part of the reason companies want this "intrepreneurship" thing is, they really want to get things done and to break things and to do things differently, and to have the innovation. But their structure actually impedes it.

JUSTIN: Okay, okay. So I'm getting you. But let me just ask, most of us have a boss. And we have a structure and a hierarchy. Does this mean we're just supposed to run rampage all over the company and just say, "I want to do everything, and give me everything, and I'm gonna break it, and I'm gonna screw it up and fail first" or -- what does this mean? Like, make it real for me. I go into work tomorrow, I listen to your podcast, I say I want to be an intrapreneur, I want to be an entrepreneur at my company. What do I do when I show up to work the next day?

BEN: Well, it's definitely not like the tea party, right? This isn't like, anarchy at your company and just going rogue, okay? Like, you can't pull a Palin at work. This is like not that -- that's not the advice. But it's much more looking for like -- spotting opportunity. So it's doing that extra thing. And the origins of this kind of concept of intrapreneurship, actually a lot came from engineering. Like, 3M, for instance, has always been know for products that have been out of the, you know, science lab for two or three years, you know, are responsible for a lot of their profit. And they do those because they give their engineers, just like Google does now, and other companies, 10, 20 percent of their time to work on whatever they like, what they're curious about what they see.

So you may be in finance, you may be in HR, you may be in something else. But it's the idea of spotting where's the opportunity. Maybe you guys are implementing a new kind of software at your company. Or there's a new market you're trying to address. You're trying to deal with diverse talent in a different way. Whatever it may be, it's like spotting, kind of, what's next, and helping really drive and get things out of the way to make the company successful. This isn't just about your own personal brand or your own personal interest. This isn't a passion project. If you like to do, you know, knitting, like, knit elsewhere, right? But this is about, like, moving things forward through the company. 05:02 In a kind of curious and scrappy way.

JUSTIN: Okay, so really what I'm hearing you say is this idea of, if you just sit at your desk and wait for someone to tell you to do something, you're going to be waiting forever. Versus, you see a problem, offer the solution. You see a big idea, you have a big idea, people want to hear it. So get off your ass and present it to people, or share it to people, or recommend it. Is that right?

BEN: Absolutely. I mean, if you're just waiting for things, people delegate the things they don't like dealing with. The things that are the least satisfying, or maybe the most nubby, hard things to do. So like, shit's gonna slide downhill onto your desk, and you're gonna be left with a bunch of things you're maybe not that interested in. Now, of course you're gonna need to take things you're delegated. But frankly, there's a lot more work you could do. And you may not get paid for it in the short term. You may not even get recognized for it in the short term. And people thing real -- you know -- small in that regard.

But can you learn? Really, the thing in particular, early in your career, the thing you want to maximize is not your income, it's your learning. That's what compounds, right? Einstein said, like, relativity wasn't that big of a breakthrough compared to compounding. Well, compounding can be about money but it can also be about knowledge. Right? So you want to bring that early, early in. You want to arc your learning curve early in your career. But some of that is, you're gonna pull more to you than you've ever been assigned. You see things and you just take ownership. It's like being the leader in a community. You spot something, and it -- you don't need to be too -- you know, it's not a land grab. You're just stepping up and saying, what can I do to be responsible? How can I be a citizen of this firm and do something meaningful?

JUSTIN: Okay, wow. You just said a lot. Um...let me think about -- this is also, then, it's about saying yes to opportunities too. So there's an element of, you've got to create opportunities, you've got to offer opportunities. But you also just need to be willing to get your hands dirty. And you see someone doing something, say, can I help you? Hey, what are you doing? If you're interested in it. How do you get involved so that you maximize the field of play, so to speak? And just see what's out there in the world. Especially earlier in your career. You want to know -- you don't even know what you like, or you don't even know what you don't know.

BEN: Totally. And that's -- I mean, if I just rewound what you just said, that's a great description of an early-stage entrepreneur. So the same behaviors you'd do if you just, like, put your job -- and you're just out there, be curious. What can you get involved in? How can you help someone out? How can you essentially, like, sample and taste a lot of different things from the composition, the problem, the type and dynamic of the people, you know, etcetera. How are you going to get work done? And so a lot of it is just like, maximizing, kind of, the stimulus that comes your way. And it's not gonna always be sexy things. Maybe, you know, figuring out the freaking mail merge, you know, for your boss, and they're doing some ancient way. You know? Or like, making the staff meeting better every week. You know, going around the horn and everyone giving an update? Like, talk about wanting to cut yourself. I mean, that is not the way to run a meeting. Like, just google a better way to do meetings. Find out -- use 15-5. Find some neat piece of software. You'll look like a messiah.

JUSTIN: Fascinating. I'd never even thought of this. So the idea is, play to your strengths, too. If you're young and tech savvy and you see something going the old way, raise your hand and say, "Have we tried this?" Or even what I heard you say there is, do the research to try and solve the problem. Cause probably everyone else is so busy, they're not gonna do the research. And there is this innate system built into these corporations where you just do things cause that's the way they were done before. And no one wants to upset the apple cart. Everyone keeps going, even if there's a better way.

BEN: It's the curiosity deficit. Right? There's a massive curiosity deficit in big companies, because of the automaticity and the inertia bias. It's the reason you don't cancel Netflix or a magazine subscription. The inertia bias, it just keeps going. Right? Including our processes and our paradigms and our way of working. So what you want to -- I mean, a critical career strategy, spend 30 minutes googling something. How to run a staff meeting better. I will tell you what will not cost you anything except 30 minutes, and you will come up with like, the world's best practices from the leading thinkers, and it'll be a freaking HBR article or a video or a this and that. You'll come in and, better than a management consultant for 30,000 dollars could, in 30 minutes of your time.

But the problem is, is that 99 percent of your colleagues won't do that. They won't be curious. They won't -- you know, they won't be interested. And they won't spend the time to just say, "How could we do this better?"

JUSTIN: Oh my gosh. You just said like ten amazing things, and I was looking in your eyes while you said it. It was like, overwhelming. Let me tell you. But -- but let me get back to -- to the situation at hand here. One of the things that I'm interested in is, people want it to relate to their everyday life. And what people want out of their work life is, I want more money. I want to get promoted. So one of the things that I want to connect what you're saying is, you're not gonna get promoted just doing your day-to-day job, doing the everyday tasks. You've got to go have special projects. You've got to contribute above and beyond your current job. And all the things that you're talking about here -- inventing new ways, improving things, studying something so you get better at it -- that's going above and beyond, is gonna put you in first place to get that next promotion. Does that sound like a way for people to connect it into what's their concern today, which is how the crap am I gonna get promoted?

BEN: Yeah, I think people get really 10:03 focused on this -- they want a feeling of advancement. So they look at money and titles as proxies for that.

JUSTIN: So you would almost argue my bringing this back to promotion is the wrong -- is dumbing it down in some ways.

BEN: I think -- I think promotions, in a flatter organization, there's just fewer levels, right? There's fewer bumps. And it takes a longer period of time. And frankly, whether you're like the associate program manager or the program manager, like, does anyone know or care in five years from now? It doesn't really matter. It may matter to you, you're gonna have that feeling of like, oh, I'm killing it, I'm doing this. But ultimately it's like, do you really -- have you created results? Do you have a great story? Did you have a big impact? Did you learn things? Right? I've learned things ten years ago that I use now, that I turn into real money. Like, it whatever, like, five, ten percent promotion bump back then on -- ten percent of nothing is nothing plus ten percent. Right? Whereas now I can turn that in on -- on big dollar basis. And big impact basis. Use it in interesting way. But I didn't even know then that I would use it now. But it became super, super useful.

So reframing. Like, it's like, title and money are things that people will do the dumbest things for. They'll go work at a crappy company because they'll pay them 15 percent more, right? They'll work in a -- a -- for a loser of a company. I know people that are, you know, going to media companies right now that like, you read the New York Times, that are just tanking, right? But like, that company, because they're tanking, they have to pay more, right? The companies that pay the most are often the worst to work for, cause they have to pay more. And they'll throw a title at you because they're desperate for people, whether you're ready for it or not. I know people -- it can be a big problem. If you have a certain title but you don't know that job, you're hollow, right? That puts you in a really vulnerable spot.

JUSTIN: So -- so this is interesting. So I -- I like this topic. Now, one of the things I want to add to this is, you can identify what this thing is, organize the drop box, fix this process, implement this. If you cannot articulate yourself simply -- make it simple, make it easy for them to say yes. Cause not only do they not have time to figure out what they should do, if you come to them with a half-baked idea or it's really confusing, or they can't find the confidence to trust you that you can execute this, it's gonna go nowhere and you're gonna get really frustrated. So your goal, whenever you're recommending something, is make it easy to say yes. Make the choices black and white. Would you -- would you agree with this, as an approach?

BEN: 100 percent. Because the thing is, people will get scared of rejection. So they'll kind of bury the lede, right? So they'll have some long deck or proposal or email about wanting to do something. At the bottom, it's like, can I go to a conference for two hours on Thursday? When that needs to be right up front, because it's like, can I go to this conference to help us figure out how to sell more to this segment of the market? Or whatever it may be. It's like, really clear, straightforward asks. Don't be so timid. Cause when you look at it, and you take a hard look, the reason you're being timid is cause of fear. And what are they gonna say, no? They're gonna laugh at you? That's the worst case that could happen.

Guess what? The secret -- here's the secret. Most things you ask for at work, you'll get. I worked at a company, I had all these colleagues that were, you know, 15 years older than me. And I started going to conferences. And they went ballistic. These people make a lot of money. And you got big budgets. So why does he get to go to conferences? And my boss finally stomped her foot down in a meeting and says, "Cause he's the only person that asked." If you asked, I'd let you go, too. So just making those asks. But also, you want to make doing the right thing to do the easy thing to do.

And like, safety. Workplace safety. That's a big thing. You don't want to make like, the earplugs and stuff, you have to rummage for them? Or even like, you know, in school cafeterias, they put the healthy food within arm's reach, and the bad food for you higher up. It's behavioral economics, right? So that's the way you want to do it with your boss, too. Is think: how do I make the thing that I really want, right, maybe I want them to make an introduction for me. Or something. Well, let me pre-draft the email and put the attachment with it, and everything else, right? Or maybe I've thought through all the details, which I know they're gonna ask about the exact cost of the travel, amount of time, who's gonna cover for me. It's just overcoming objections in the sales process. So you overcome all that so they can just say, "Hey, I've thought through all of this, it's totally sorted."

Because what most people do is, they have an idea which is really a complaint shrouded in some sort of, like, sparkle. It then becomes some crap that they throw on their manager's plate -- it's like, yeah, I have this idea. And then the manager's like, great. Now I have another thing to do. I got very good at getting a lot of money on the first or second ask. But I had thought through it. I mean, it wasn't just -- I didn't come in and say, "Oh my God, I watched a TED talk. We should hire a freaking, you know, whatever." Right?

JUSTIN: Alright, well listen. I want to move us over to the bonus section. So...bonus section. Bonus section. Bonus section. Come on, Ben, say something. Bonus section.

BEN: Bonus section.

JUSTIN: Okay bonus section.

BEN: Super whizmo bonus section.

JUSTIN: Alright. Now Ben, we are offering you this bonus section to say anything that you want to say.

BEN: Well I want to be useful, so there's this entrepreneurial thing that we've talked about. But eventually, after you've been somewhere a while, and you've solved a lot of practical problems, figure out from a legacy perspective -- it's kind of weird to think about, maybe you're at a job for three or four years, but like, what's gonna be your legacy there? 15:05 What's the thing, when you're gone, that they will remember you for? How will you leave your indelible mark on a place that you worked at? And it may be something that you're deeply passionate about or interested in. You may have to sell and lobby over a period of time. It may not be the most obvious thing.

So think about, when I left -- I was in management consulting, and when I left, I started a LGBT group, but it was from a really bad experience of being a gay person and being called, like, names when I started at the consulting firm. It wasn't from this great, uproarious moment. Right? But like, me and a number of colleagues co-founded this thing, and changed the firm. And when I left, our head of HR said, you know, this is -- this will be your legacy here. You've changed the firm more than some partners have. I was a junior employee. I was a -- you know. But I had found my thing, right?

JUSTIN: But you're incredible, Ben. So what about all the rest of us normal people? Like, you're talking about legacies, like, I can understand you having a legacy. But what about me having a legacy? I'm just a normal person.

BEN: You can be a legacy on your team, on your floor, on your department, on that client account. You don't have to think of this, like, massive global thing. Right? You know, a meteor hitting the earth, right? It can be just thinking and like, here's the guy that got us onto Asana, and now we actually have a project management system and we use it.

JUSTIN: What are you gonna be remembered for?

BEN: What is that thing that ultimately -- and when you get to, like, brand, people will try to, like, put out this brand, some story, all this other stuff. Ultimately, the brand should be the composition of the experiences people have with you. And really, you should have like, one deep pervasive one. And a job. You know? The thing that, like, you made -- like, cause just performing, just doing the requirements of the job, even exceeding those requirements of the job, will never have you be memorable. They'll just think of you as this utility player, this hard worker. You're essentially like a polished-up mule. What is that thing that's like, ownable? It's the story, the thing you could speak at a conference about. The thing that you can sell -- the next job, you know -- instead of "tell me about this job" and you rehash the requirements of the job in a job interview of your last job, you tell a story about the thing where you maximize your learning.

JUSTIN: And it doesn't matter what it is, right? Like, even if you're just like, you organize the playground for the kids to come every Thursday once a month, that can be your thing. You know what I like about this is, it actually raises your vision above the short-term. So I started this conversation by talking about, what about if I want to get promoted? What if I want more money? But that's today, tomorrow, six months from now. But I like what you're talking about. How are you going to be remembered? What is your legacy? Helps you to actually focus above and beyond and get off of your ass and say, what am I doing here? What am I gonna do that's gonna make a difference? How am I gonna be remembered?

BEN: And the -- and there's a secret kind of promotion, by the way. It's the kind that they don't tell you about, which is in the five to ten percent. If the 20 to 70 percent raise, which I've gotten --

JUSTIN: Hashtag humblebrag.

BEN: And so you got the -- you're really busting my balls on this. You know, I mean, hard to turn off a magnet, right? So -- so --

You get those from not doing your job. It's from doing this special thing. Cause there's this undeniable case, like, we cannot lose a person who creates these kind of things, who cares this much, who works -- produces these kind of results. You don't even have to ask for that promotion. That's the sort of thing that like -- like, there's a whole group of people that proactively think about, these critical people that they can't lose. And it's not because they're just doing their job, they're doing it better. It's because they're doing something extra or special that literally is not replaceable. And companies know it. And they will throw all sorts of things to keep you. And you feel deeply appreciated. And it's a fair trade. It's mutual respect. What you focus on is creating value and having impact. Not being entitled in -- you know, groveling over some tiny little promotion.

JUSTIN: Boom! I mean, boom. Ben, that was a fantastic -- maybe that was the best bonus section ever. Before we let you off the hook here, what do you want to tell people about what you're doing? Do you want to talk about the pilot program? Do you want to talk about your executive coaching? Like, I'm gonna hand you the mike for 30 seconds.

BEN: So I run a company called Pilot. Pilot, we help companies retain their employees by giving them executive coaching that normally is locked up for very high executive people that's very expensive. We deliver it through technology. It's all about responsibility, as I talked about. It's a lot about doing special things in your career, including things like getting on a nonprofit board, being involved in your industry, optimizing your job so you're more satisfied. So Pilot.coach is our site. And we're working with leading companies to retain their talent.

JUSTIN: You couldn't afford the dot com?

BEN: Dot com is owned by Hearst, unfortunately. They're not using it, which is interesting. But nonetheless, you know, no one really goes direct to a domain anymore. So it's kind of, you know, the dot com is like Pets.com era.

JUSTIN: My wife always yells at me, but I'm definitely a dot com kind of guy. You know? That's like -- if it's dot com it's real. If it's dot net, it's like, oh, second tier.

BEN: Well it's a little like DVDs versus, you know, streaming. It's like, I can't see the show.

JUSTIN: Okay, I was trying to insult you, and you double-insulted me.

BEN: You know, we're just bad, you know.

JUSTIN: Alright Ben, thanks. This will not be the last time you'll come on the podcast, if you'll have us again. But fantastic info, definitely raised the bar. And everyone go check out Pilot.coach.

BEN: Pleasure to be here. 20:00

JUSTIN: Oh, by the way, you can reach me at mrcorpopodcast@gmail.com. By the way, I've gotten three fantastic questions this week, and was able to get back to everyone. That's free coaching that I give over at mrcorpo.com, so you don't have to go to Mr. Ben Brooks to get his expensive executive coaching. You can get the bad, lower, free coaching from me over at mrcorpopodcast@gmail.com. Go to mrcorpo.com. Buy the book, How To Write An Email. And we're still looking, we're still looking for sponsors for the Mr. Corpo podcast. We have almost 10,000 downloads, or more! And we have no sponsors.

I'm gonna talk about Pilot.coach. I probably shouldn't have talked shit on Pilot.coach, right? Oh well. Anyway, Rob, thanks so much. Ben, thanks so much. Get to work.

MR CORPO is obsessed with pre-reads and saying things in advance but on today's episode, he talks about the many advantages of following up after a meeting.

 LISTEN HERE:

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

JUSTIN: Memories, like the corner of my mind. Soft and watercolored memories of the way we were.

(Intro music)

JUSTIN: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mr. Corpo podcast. Today’s episode, we are going to talk about the importance of following up. Now, for all the avid listeners of the Mr. Corpo podcast, you know we spend a lot of energy, a lot of time, talking about pre-reads. Or saying things in advance. Well, today’s episode is just the opposite. Today we’re gonna make sure that you say things afterwards. Following up can take many forms. And I want to highlight three situations where following up is really, really, really important. Number one, when you don’t know the answer. Number two, when you aren’t happy with your answer. And number three, when you mention something that someone else doesn’t know.

Now, the underlying theme of all three of these topics is my principle of efficiency through overcommunication. Because following up is a great chance to demonstrate that you’re organized, you’re trustworthy, and you’re thoughtful. Let’s get to work.

(music)

Alright, number one. The first scenario I want to talk about is when you don’t know the answer to a question. And the first thing I want to say about that is, it is 100 percent okay to not know everything. It is 100 percent okay to not know the answer to a specific question in a specific meeting. It is okay. I promise. The important part is that you don’t fake it. And then the most important part is that you follow up. If you’re in a meeting and someone asks you a question and you don’t know the answer, simply say, “You know what? I don’t know the answer to that question right here, but I can get back to you within the next hour and get you the final number.” The important part is to be clear. That’s the “I don’t know” part. And then the other important part is to be specific. That’s the “I’ll get back to you in one hour” part.

Now, the most important part is the actual follow-up. Get back to your desk, do the research, get the answer, and send the email within the next hour. Make sure to cc everyone. Everyone that was in the room. Everyone that knew you had promised to do a follow-up, make sure they’re on the email. You have to include everyone in the email because everyone needs to see that you followed through on what you said you’d do. It’s a fantastic opportunity for you to demonstrate you’re organized, you’re trustworthy. And hey, people can count on you to do what you say you’re going to do. Voila! No one remembers that you didn’t know the answer. Now, everyone notices that you’re a trustworthy person who follows through on what you do. We’ve turned a bad situation into a good situation. Boom. That’s the power of following up, part one.

Okay. Now for part two. There will come a point in your life, work-related or personal, when someone asks you a question, you answer it, and maybe after you leave the meeting or the dinner or the event or the party, you reflect back on your answer and you think, “Shoot. I wish I had said X.” Or, “I wish I had said something differently.” Or, “That was a horrible answer that I gave to that question.” Whatever the case may be, all hope is not lost. In fact, most people don’t realize they still have an excellent opportunity to follow up and set the record straight. It is never too late to say what you actually want to say. All you have to do is send a very simpe email to the person. I recommend the title to be simply, “Follow Up.” No context, just simply the words, “Follow Up.” The reason you want to do this is, you want to keep it really punchy and get them intrigued to wonder, what is the follow up? Then simply make your point. And be honest. Don’t try and be political. Don’t try and triangulate. Don’t try and like, deflect everything this way and that way. Cause then it’s annoying and it’s an unclear email. Be really simple and to the point. The time is over for all the games. Now it’s just about being honest, being human.

Now, let me make this real. Here’s an example from my life. I was working for a company, I’m not gonna say which company. But I happened to be in London, and I happened to be out to dinner with the CEO and the founder of this big global company. 5:05 I had a fantastic dinner. We were talking one-on-one, there were also a couple other people there. Actually, my mom happened to be there for a number of reasons. And we had a great time in the conversation, we were talking about work, we were talking about personal life, we were talking about all these different things, and I felt like I really hit it off.

And we left the dinner and I’m walking home and my mom turned to me and said, “Wow. Justin, you did a great job at that dinner. But your answer to that one question was horrible.” And I looked at her and I immediately knew what she was talking about. This boss, this CEO, had asked me, what did I imagine I wanted to do in the future of my career, what did I want to do with my life? And I gave this super rambling, super unclear, just horrible answer. And I could see his face just kind of glaze over, he almost stopped listening, like no one understood what they -- what I was saying. Cause I didn’t even know what I was saying. And I went home and I was so disappointed.

But what I did was, one week later, maybe 10 days later, I wrote an email and it just said, “Follow Up.” And I wrote directly to this person. And I said, “Follow Up,” and I said, “Dear X, I’ve been thinking about our conversation that we had last week and there was one answer that I -- there was one answer that I gave you which I wasn’t happy with. When you asked what I wanted to do with the rest of my life, I wish I would have said this, and here’s my simple answer.” And I said something to the effect of, I’d like to run my own company. I’d like to combine creative with the business aspect, and I’d like to either do that blah blah blah blah blah. So I was really kind of acknowledging, here was your question, here’s my better answer.

Now, on this podcast, I’m not giving you a good example of what it is cause it was probably two years ago. But ultimately I gave a very crisp and clear answer that said, “My last answer wasn’t good. Here’s exactly what I want to do.” Now, it was kind of stressful cause the person didn’t reply for a day or two. And then I got an email. And it said, “Dear Justin, I understand what you’re saying. Signed, the person’s name.” That was it. I’d cleaned up my mess. I’d made it clear to this person, I had not missed an opportunity to explain to them what I really wanted.

And guess what? I woke up three months later. This person called me into their office. They gave me a promotion. They moved me halfway around the world. And I got a 30 percent raise. And I absolutely, without a doubt, guarantee that all came from the fact of my follow up email, made it clear for this person what I wanted, and it gave them a chance to give me what I wanted. And if I hadn’t sent that email, I’d probably still be sitting in London, in the cold, in the rain, shivering, having missed out on life. So that’s just a point of, never miss an opportunity. This was even with a world-powerful CEO. I sent that email. So imagine how easy it is to send to a co-worker. Or a boss. Or someone else. Or a loved one. Whatever the case may be. Voila. The power of the follow up changed my life. I love following up. And you should, too.

But wait! There’s more. And again, this applies as much to your personal life as your professional life. This is part three of following up. When you mention something that someone else doesn’t know about. This happens to all of us. You’re trying to reference something, a movie, a book, a quote, and the other person doesn’t know what you’re talking about. Or maybe it’s on the tip of your tongue but you can’t quite get the quote right. Or you can’t quite remember the person’s name. In these cases, it is always a good idea to follow up with a quick link to whatever it is you’re talking about. This can be an email, a text, whatever. The point is that you’re closing the loop. You’re making the extra effort. Whether it’s a friend or a colleague, you’re subtly communicating, “You can count on me. I care about you. I want to make sure we stay on the same page.”

Recently, I’ve even noticed a new trend taking this to the extreme, which is using your Amazon Prime account. I’m finding that some people when they mention a book to me and I say, “Oh, that sounds interesting,” the next thing I know, three days later, the book arrives from Amazon prime. I mean, you think about it, it’s free shipping. A lot of these books are so cheap. People are actually just following up by sending the actual book. That’s like a boss move right there. So think about that. That’s just a tip of the hat. Shoutout to my friend Ryan, who just sent me a book.

But otherwise, I want to give you an example. If I’m in a conversation and I mention beekeeping, then the next day, or the end of the day, I usually send a follow up. And it’s just an FYI, it’s just a link, and it says, “Hey, just something on the end of the day. Wanted to follow up. Here’s a link to the book I wrote about beekeeping.” Now, there’s a couple levels to this. One, it keeps it casual. You know, there’s a little bit of a humble brag in there, I’ll fully admit that. But maybe I’m just showing good manners and following through. The point is, it gives me another chance to keep the conversation going, to make a connection, to draw closer to this person, and to say, 10:03 “Hey, I care enough about you to follow through and follow up.”

So do you get my point? You extend the conversation. You clarify a point. Or you follow through when you don’t know the answer. Whatever the case may be, there’s no downside to following up. There’s only upside. So make it a habit. Don’t worry about bothering people. Keep the emails simple. Keep the hallway conversation simple. Whatever the case may be. But make the extra effort to follow through. Especially if you say you’re gonna follow up, you don’t have a choice. You have to follow up. At the point at which you say you’re gonna do something and you don’t do it, you’re losing credibility, you’re no trustworthy, and it’s only downhill from there. So that’s all I have to say for why you should always follow up.

And that’s it for today’s episode. Short, sweet, punchy. Gives you something to go work on. Rob, thanks for producing another episode. Shoutout to all the Mr. Corpo listeners. Thanks for all the support. Hit me at mrcorpopodcast@gmail.com. Visit mrcorpo.com. And I think that’s all the big news for today.

Oh, and that was -- I thought it was Gladys Knight and the Pips that I was singing, but maybe it was Barbara Streisand, I’m not sure. The point was, people have a long memory. They don’t forget, if you forget. So don’t forget. Follow up.

What does it mean to treat your employees and co-workers as human beings? Does it change how you treat them? Does it change how you motivate them? MR CORPO dives into the world of being human in the workplace. Mauri Skinfill joins the podcast (again) to challenge MR CORPO's assumptions and argues that it may be detrimental for women to share too much personal information in the workplace.

LISTEN HERE: 

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Humans versus Employees

FEMALE: In the day we sweat it out on the streets of a runaway American dream. By night we ride through mansions of glory on suicide machines.

(Intro music)

JUSTIN: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mr. Corpo podcast. For those of you that are interested, that was Mauri Skinfill leading us into today's episode with Bruce Springsteen's Born To Run. Today's episode is a very special episode. The title of today's episode is "Humans versus Employees".

And as is one of my shortcomings in life, I'm going to start the conversation by talking about myself. I realized this morning that we have been doing this podcast for almost six months, more than 26 episodes, we've had together. And I still haven't properly introduced myself. My name is Justin Kerr. I graduated from Princeton University. My first job out of college was working at Gap, Inc. I joined this fantastic training program where you got to spend three months in different jobs and rotate around and figure out what you actually liked. Eventually, I ended up spending 11 years at Gap and Old Navy. It was a great place to grow up. I ended my career there as a vice president of the kids division, running a billion-dollar business before the age of 30.

But, you know, I'd been 11 years at one place, so I took a jump. I wanted to go somewhere international. I went over and worked at Levi's, where I was in charge of every single pair of womens jeans sold anywhere in the world. It was something like 10,000 points of distribution around the world. It was an incredible experience, a great way to see the world. I spent time in India, in China, in Paris, all over, getting to know people and understand: what does fashion mean across different cultures? It was really interesting.

But at that point in my life, you know, as everyone in San Francisco does when you're young and semi-smart, you think you're supposed to start your own startup company, and do a tech company, and make billions of dollars. And that's the only way to go. So I jumped outside of Levi's, I started a company called Black Sheep Postal Service. I'm sure none of you have ever heard of it. Um, I was there, and I learned that everything that had made me successful in corporate America for 13 years counted for nothing when you stepped outside that box, and you started your own company. And you've heard me talk about this before on the podcast. Laying on the couch, crying, wondering, "What have I done with my life? What am I doing with my life? I'm so lonely!"

And so as it happens, I very quickly ran back into the warm embrace of corporate America. In this case, going to work for a company called Uniqlo, which moved me to London, which moved me to San Francisco, which moved me ultimately to New York City. And I've had a great adventure with them.

And that brings you up to today. And me sitting here on today's podcast, talking to you about me. You know everything there is to know, right? I've told you about my career, you know everything. Although, there is one small thing I'd like to point out. I actually haven't told you a single thing about myself. I've read you my resume. But you actually don't know anything about me. And this is the problem. All too often, -- actually, always -- bosses, co-workers, companies, are satisfied to trade in this superficial exchange of niceties without actually trying to get to know me beyond my resume.

In fact, the question you should ask, the things I want you to know about me, are as follows: I love living in big cities. I love collecting art. I've written 14 books. I've started a record label. I was in a rock band called The Blacks. At the age of 29, I was a vice president of a $1 billion company and somehow I figured out how to get 30 days off work so I could tour around the country with the rock band. I've ridden my bike across the country. I keep 50,000 bees on my roof. I wrote a book about beekeeping that was sold in Williams Sonoma at a loss. I mean, what a bad business person! Oh, and did I mention I'm somewhat scared of the dark? And secretly, deep down, deep, deep down, I think I'm an artist. But I'm just afraid to admit it. I'm afraid to admit it to myself, my friends, my family. So I've been hiding out in corporate America for the last 17 years, doing something that I happen to be good at, but I actually don't really care about.

Ah. That's better. Now, do you feel like you know something about me? And if you were my co-worker, or if you were my boss, wouldn't knowing all that stuff about me -- wouldn't that stuff beyond my resume, the real stuff, 05:07 wouldn't that change every single interaction we have? Wouldn't that help you figure out how to motivate me? How to keep me interested? Wouldn't that help you know how to give me feedback in a way that will resonate with me? The answer is, obviously yes. It changes everything. Knowing the other workers around you on a human level changes everything.

So if the benefits are so obvious, why don't we all make the effort to do it, to get to know the people we spend 8-10 hours a day with, five days a week? You see, a strange thing happens on the way to work every day. We stop being human. We walk through the front door of the office and we're magically transformed from awesome, fun-loving, sports-loving husband, father, friend, into an employee, a vice president, a boss, a director, a visual merchandiser, a janitor, a manager. We stop being human. We treat it -- we treat each other as cogs in the wheel. We trade corpo white noise, greetings in the hallway. "Hey, how's it going?" Never actually stopping to listen to the answer. It's transactional, it's mechanical. It's inhuman. My point is simple: we are human beings. We are all in this together. So take the time to get to know the people around you.

There's a lot more I want to say on this topic. And in fact, the very idea of being human is at the base of my new book, How To Be A Boss. You'll be hearing more about this in the weeks and the months to come. But I wanted to leave you with a thought from my first book, How To Write An Email. In the afterward of that book, after I've talked about how to be successful at your job, talking about how to get promoted, how to send emails, how to give presentations, what I point out is: nobody's going to write the results of last quarter on your tombstone. Nobody remembers what business results you drove. What you do remember is the people you worked with.

In fact, I was just at a wedding, and there were people that I worked with 15 years ago at that wedding. And we were still friends. And half the people in the room I could look at and say, "Wow, it was really fun spending time together with you then, and it is now." And half the people in the room I could look at and say, "Wow, I really never got to know you." And here we are, 10 years later, 15 years later, and there's still a space between us, even though there shouldn't be.

And sure, there were one or two people at that wedding, guess what? I really didn't like them, they really didn't like me, and we just went on our merry way. But I wish, if I had paid more attention early on, I could have moved the percentage of that room into 80 or 90 percent, I've got a relationship with you, I understand you, we actually hug when we see each other. But instead it was only 50 percent, and that was somewhat disappointing for me. But it was a good reflection upon maybe some mistakes I made earlier in my career, and things I would do differently now.

So I leave you with that. Let's treat each other as human beings. Let's get to know each other. And it's gonna help everyone in the work they do.

But wait. There is something more. Bonus section! Bonus section! Bonus section! Bonus section! Come on, Mauri! Bonus section!

Hello, Mauri. Welcome back to the Mr. Corpo podcast.

MAURI: We're back together.

JUSTIN: Now, I don't want to fill your head, but I'm gonna tell you, of all the podcasts we've done -- we've done 26, 27 podcasts -- you are everyone's favorite guest.

MAURI: You know, I've heard the same thing.

JUSTIN: Oh really?

MAURI: Independently from people. So...

JUSTIN: Well dang, that makes me feel a little bit lonely.

MAURI: Yeah, it's not just spin. It's corraborated.

JUSTIN: People don't really love the podcast, but they love when you're on the podcast. So...

MAURI: Fantastic. Well, here I am!

JUSTIN: Well, here you are. So, you heard us, we were talking about humans versus employees, and this idea of getting to know the other people you work with, on a human level, so that you can better relate to them, work with them better, all of those things. I guess my first question is: do you agree?

MAURI: Um, yes and no. I mean, I -- I think that -- so, a couple things. I think, one, the piece that's sort of missing for me is, why is it valuable to -- I mean, obviously there's a reason why you should always treat people as humans, right? But what's the specific value in the workplace? You didn't -- you didn't cover that. So I'd like to hear more about that.

JUSTIN: Well, I think -- I mean, you've just said two things. One, I don't think it's obvious to everyone that there's benefits to treating each other as human beings. That's why we treat each other as employee and boss, and that's my point.

MAURI: Right.

JUSTIN: Employee versus vice president. Vice president treats a janitor a certain way because of the titles and the hierarchy versus just -- this is another human being who happens to work in the same place I'm working at, who has the same mission or the same goals, and happens to just have a different job or a different skill set. 10:10 And so I don't think we -- we start the conversation of work through that filter, of human being to human being. So I'm actually just trying to highlight that fact --

MAURI: Yeah.

JUSTIN: -- and I think the benefits are self-evident. So I didn't want to go into them all. In terms of, you know, I guess I mentioned some of them. The idea of, if you're the boss of me, don't you want to know what's gonna motivate me? Don't you want to know what I respond well to, what I'm sensitive about, what are the -- what are the sore spots for me? What would make me run through a wall for you? And you can't find that out just by hearing where I've worked in the past. Or, what results I drove last quarter. You really have to get to know me as a person. So I guess, does that answer your question?

MAURI: Yeah. It -- and -- absolutely. I mean, I think there's a couple pieces to this, right? So one is just the human decency element of it, which is: be, uh, you know, be decent to the people that you engage with every day. Whatever their function is. Whether they're making you coffee at the coffee shop in the morning or whether they're actually peers. You know, they're colleagues, or they report to you, you report to them. That seems like a good policy, generally. Um, I could see how also in terms of organizational behavior, there'd be a lot of benefits to treating people as humans, as opposed to just treating them as functions.

Me personally, I can also see not a downside exactly, but I don't think it's necessarily the case across the board that it's good to bring your personal life into work.

JUSTIN: Okay, interesting. So you're kinda challenging this idea of: get to know other people on the human level, or let other people get to know about what's important to you. You don't think that's always a good idea in the workplace?

MAURI: Um, I don't.

JUSTIN: Okay, why not?

MAURI: Because, well, so let me also say that I think that it's quite specifically a gendered thing.

JUSTIN: Okay.

MAURI: So I think that there are -- you're assuming that if people see the human side of you that there will somehow naturally be respect for that. And I don't think that's always the case. I think it's the nature of -- especially in big organizations, to jockey for position and -- and then I think when you add certain kinds of gender bias into that, I think there's power for women in being more opaque at work. I don't think you need to be seen as, you know, a mother or a wife or a partner or a whatever. I don't know that that always works to your advantage. I think it's useful as a boss to be sensitive to the fact that people have personal lives, but from where I sit it's also none of your business.

JUSTIN: Interesting. So, I mean, you're actually kinda catching me off guard here. I guess it's far off my radar. But why is that a gender issue and not just a general issue, to say you're kind of arguing for people not sharing about their personal lives? What makes it a gender issue? Or, can you give me an example to make that more real for me?

MAURI: Well, I mean, I think it's well-documented that -- that there's a -- there's gender bias in the workplace and that there are certain assumptions about, you know, what the purview of men is versus the purview of women. This isn't the case everywhere, but you know, we've been looking in like the Uber fiasco, recently, for example, the way women engineers are treated in that culture. So that's an example of, the less somebody knows about you personally and the more they see you simply as an engineer, the better.

JUSTIN: But is it better? Because that was leading to an interaction where they were just treating you not as a human being, but just as someone there for -- in their own service, versus if they knew you as, hey, you care about this, and I care about that, so now we have a human connection. Maybe I'll treat you in a different way than I do if it just says across your forehead, "Employee." Or, "engineer" or just other things. So you get in this kind of behavior of, you're not even interacting as two human beings.

MAURI: Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, if I'm an engineer, I want to be treated as an engineer. You know? I don't want to be treated as whatever that other thing is. I don't want to be treated as a woman engineer -- I want to be treated as a man engineer.

JUSTIN: But let me point out something else. When you're going through your list of why women shouldn't articulate who they are outside the workplace, you only listed things that were very gender-specific. Mother, wife, partner. Why can't women in the workplace talk about being a beekeeper? Or why can't they talk about being in a rock band? Like, you're in a rock band. Do you bring that into the workplace? Isn't that something that makes you --

MAURI: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

JUSTIN: Why? That makes you cooler. That you have a -- you're in a rock band.

MAURI: But it doesn't make you cooler if you're already having to fight for a certain representation of you as capable and authoritative, right? So I think you're assuming a lot about how people see -- you're already assuming parity of roles, across gender. And if that were the case, sure! 15:00 Then let's all be human together and like, get into like, the personal bits. But um, where that isn't the case, I think it could be -- it can work against you. So, I don't want people seeing me as a beekeeper. I want people seeing me as a, you know, being a killer in the function that I'm -- that I work in.

JUSTIN: Right. And so you would say --

MAURI: First and foremost.

JUSTIN: So that's gotta be first.

MAURI: No question. Like, I'm a subject matter expert. I'm whatever I am. And -- and that's my purview. And all that other stuff, it's like, oh yeah great, I'm a beekeeper, I play -- you know, I'm a musician. I'm all these things. That can detract from that perception if you're not careful. So by the way, I'm not saying women shouldn't bring that to work. I'm saying there's a risk for everybody. And I think the risk is higher for women when they do that.

JUSTIN: Interesting. Wow. I mean, a lot of what you're saying is off my radar. I don't know if it's because I work in an industry that's, let's say, 90 percent female. Or it's because I'm a white guy going through work and I only know it through my perspective. So I'm really blind to this.

MAURI: Well, I think probably both. But also, like, you know this. We saw -- I think we talked about this, right? So, our sister-in-law who just got like regional salesman of the year, salesperson of the year award, right?

JUSTIN: Yeah. Yeah.

MAURI: She was presented with that award. We saw that. And she worked, by the way, in a super masculine industry, right?

JUSTIN: Right.

MAURI: And she gets presented this award, the background music is "Girls, Girls, Girls".

JUSTIN: Right, right.

MAURI: The first thing they talk about as she's getting the award, like, is about how she's a mother and a wife. That woman is an assassin in sales. Right? That's not what they're talking about. They're talking about her personal life, and they're framing her in a certain kind of way. I saw that and I was like, "Go fuck yourselves." You know? I mean, come on! So this is -- that's why I'm saying, I don't think it's all to the good. The personal -- importing the personal into the professional.

JUSTIN: Right. Well no, it's interesting. I watched that same video of her receiving the award, and what struck me was the -- the inherent kind of sexism of it, of playing Girls, Girls, Girls". I think they even commented on how attractive she is. And that was the whole center of the argument. So I picked up on that. But I didn't pick up on the fact that they mentioned mother or you know, all these other aspects that for you, felt like, maybe that's undercutting what is the thing we're celebrating here, which is how awesome she is at her job.

MAURI: Professionally, yeah. And by the way, it's not that she -- it's that motherhood or being somebody's wife is not totally meaningful to her in her life. Like, obviously it is, right?

JUSTIN: Right.

MAURI: But that's not what made her an incredible salesperson.

JUSTIN: Right. No, I see your point. And I'm also thinking this week, you know, what's her name -- Amal Clooney, or -- George Clooney's --

MAURI: Amal Clooney. Yeah. Absolutely.

JUSTIN: -- wife give an important speech on human rights at --

MAURI: Yeah, unreal.

JUSTIN: -- the United Nations, and the headline in time magazine was, "Amal Clooney Shows Her Baby Bump." "Steps Out With Her Baby Bump." And there was no talk of the important subject matter she -- she discussed. And it was a great, powerful presentation. I mean, that was like, a good example of that. So -- but it's interesting. Cause of course I think we can all agree on that. Sexism in the workplace. But I just did not see this angle that there might be an inherent risk for, you're saying, women in the workplace to reveal too much. Or it might not allow them to be seen on equal footing, I guess, in some way.

Now, would you say it depends on which facts you do share and don't share? Like, can you share cool facts about yourself? Or certain aspects of it? Or are you seriously just want to be stone cold assassin, just there to do work, and that's how you're gonna get the respect?

MAURI: I mean --

JUSTIN: Cause I can't -- I don't think I agree with that completely.

MAURI: Sure. I mean, my approach has been stone cold assassin, and that's worked for me. I don't think you have to do that. All I'm saying is, I think you should be mindful of how it plays.

JUSTIN: Okay.

MAURI: Whatever it is, right?

JUSTIN: Okay. Alright, no. Super interesting. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for challenging my assumptions. Is there anything else I didn't ask you that you wanted to say, or -- how are the records selling, by the way?

MAURI: Well, they haven't hit yet, as you know.

JUSTIN: Okay, you have a new record coming out?

MAURI: Oh wait -- okay, cause you made fun of me about this last time.

JUSTIN: Yeah, cause they were falling off the shelf, not flying off the shelf.

MAURI: Yeah, that was not that funny. Um, I -- so as you know, the EP sold very well digitally. And it sold so well, in terms of digital downloads, that the Tricycle Records decided they wanted to do a vinyl pressing. So the vinyl pressing is arriving this week.

JUSTIN: Awesome. So that's the update on Rich Girls. And you can check them out on richgirlstheband.com, or richgirlstheband at Instagram, all of those good things. Is that the best way to catch you?

MAURI: 20:01 Yeah.

JUSTIN: Alright, awesome. Well I think we'll leave it there. Mauri, thank you for coming on the show. And to all the Mr. Corpo listeners, thanks for sticking with us. Hope you enjoyed today's podcast. Rob, thank you for producing another great episode, and we'll see you on the other side. Go get to work.

Bored at work? If yes, listen to this podcast about being bored at work. If no, get to work.

 LISTEN HERE:

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

If You’re Bored At Work

JUSTIN: How the hell can a person go to work in the morning, come home in the evening, and have nothing to say?

(Intro music)

JUSTIN: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mr. Corpo podcast. Today's topic: what to do if you are bored at work. Now, today's podcast is going to have two parts. Part one is going to focus on: why are you bored? Part two is gonna focus on four specific ways to take advantage of being bored at work. Okay, part one. Let's get to work.

(music)

JUSTIN: Why are you bored at work? Maybe you've been doing your job for a long time and it's too easy for you. Maybe you've lost interest in what you're doing. Maybe they re-orgged and now you don't have as much responsibility as you used to have, so things are just easier to get done, and you don't know how to fill your time. Whatever the reason, being bored at work is not much fun. People may think it's fun, because people may think that being bored is the same as having an easy job. And people may equate an easy job with having a good job. The thinking is that because you're not working hard, it must be a good job.

But if you've ever been bored at work, you know it isn't fun at all. In fact, it's painful. It's so slow. It's life-sucking. In short, it's boring. So before we talk about how to fix or take advantage of the situation, it's helpful to pause and ask yourself: why am I bored?

The most common situation that leads to boredom is when you've been doing the same job for an extended period of time. Doing the same job over and over and over and over and over again is robotic. It's hardly human. There's a reason that repetitive tasks are replaced by machines. Machines love repetition. Machines thrive with repetition. Humans, on the other hand -- we get bored with repetition. We lose interest with repetition. The end result being: we don't do as good a job as we did at the beginning when we first were doing that task, because we were interested or it was challenging, or it was new. My point is simply this: don't dwell in your boredom. Do something about it. Now, it starts with being able to answer the question: why am I bored?

Now, here's what I want you to do. Take 30 minutes. Take three pieces of blank paper. Go into a quiet room. Now, remember, you're bored, so you should have time to do this. Go into the quiet room, write a question at the top of the page in big writing: why am I bored? Now I want you to sit there and start writing. Don't think, don't edit, don't organize. Just write every reason that comes in your mind.

Okay. Now look at your list. What does it tell you? Maybe it tells you you don't like your current job. Maybe it tells you you don't like the current industry you're working in. Maybe it tells you you don't like your company. Or your boss. Or your current responsibilities. The point is, knowledge is power. Before you can go about fixing your problem -- and make no mistake, boredom is a problem -- before you can fix this problem, you need to know what the problem is. So that's why I want you to identify it.

So let's look at a couple examples. Maybe you're not learning anything new. Guess what? Go tell your boss. There's always special projects that bosses are happy to hand over or create for you. I mean, in essence, you're asking the boss: can I take work off your plate, or can I have more work? Everyone's gonna be happy with that, including you. Cause it's gonna break the monotony, it's gonna break the boredom. So if your reason is you're not learning anything new, go tell your boss you feel like you're plateaued, and you want to learn something new.

Now, another reason might be: you're not interested in what you're doing anymore. In this case, go get another piece of paper and make a list of what you are interested in. Maybe there's other roles at the same company that you might like to be doing. Maybe you have to look outside that company. Either way, you need to control your own destiny. If you're experiencing boredom at work, it's a symptom of something bigger. So stop what you're doing and figure out why you are bored. This is it for part one of the podcast.

05:11 Moving on to part two: how to take advantage of being bored at work. Sometimes it's okay to be bored at work. Sometimes you deserve it. The key is: how do you take advantage of the situation? Most people make the mistake of coasting through the boredom, until it inevitably ends with a promotion, a re-org, or getting fired. This is a lost opportunity.

Instead, if you're bored at work, I want you do at least one of these four things. Option one: start exercising more: physical fitness. Getting in shape, getting endorphins running through your body is gonna bring you more energy and bring you more enthusiasm in what you do on a day-to-day basis.

Option two: pursue a new hobby. Is there something that you've always wanted to do? Learn to play the piano. Be a beekeeper. Take pottery. Paint. Acting. Tennis. Photography. Whatever it is you want to do. Even if you want to be a stand-up comic, use this as an opportunity to pursue a new hobby that you've been putting off. Take advantage of this down time, this boring time, to acquire a new skill. Even if it's something that's related to your job or your industry or your work, go out and take a night class. It's gonna help you. It's gonna help your career. It's gonna make you feel more motivated. It's gonna fill up time. It's gonna be good for you.

Option three: volunteer. Now, here's the thing. If you're feeling sorry for yourself because you aren't loving your current job, perhaps the best thing you can do is go volunteer somewhere. Get a new perspective. Be reminded that you're lucky to have a job. You're lucky to have your health. You're lucky to have your family. And being bored at work is not the worst thing in the world. So get a little bit of a new perspective, and give some time to somebody else.

Option four: think. Be quiet. Be still. Think. It's rare to have down time in today's world. If you're bored at work, take advantage of your situation and create specific room, specific time, to allow yourself to be quiet. To think.

And this brings me to my key point: no matter which of these four options you choose, you have to structurally change your day-to-day life to accommodate these options. Don't pay it lip service. Don't pretend. Don't be lazy. Actually do it. It's simple. All you have to do is mention to your boss that you've decided that you want to do X. Whatever it is, whether it's volunteer, start a hobby, get healthier. Whatever it is you want to do, just mention it to your boss, and then say, in order to do that, you're going to blank. And the blank means you're going to leave work early on Wednesdays and Fridays in order to go to class. Or, I'm gonna arrive to work at 8:30 instead of 8:00 on Tuesdays and Thursdays because I'm taking this class in the mornings. Here's the class I'm taking, here's why I'm taking it. Whatever the case may be, be specific. I want to do X, so I will Y. As long as you can articulate the what, the why, and that you have a plan, you're organized, 100 percent of bosses will say yes.

You see what we did here? We turned your boredom into a new hobby, a new perspective, a new self-awareness, a new career. Boom! Make a plan, set up the structure, structurally change your behavior, and then be awesome.

Now, before I go, I just want to add that it's okay to be bored sometimes. Life comes and goes. Work ebbs and flows. So if you find yourself in a lull, take advantage of it. Trust me, there'll be plenty of days, plenty of weeks, plenty of years where work gets the better of you. So if you find yourself with a little bit of an extra time, indulge. Take advantage. Do something that will make you feel good about yourself. But don't live in the perpetual boredom. That's not good for you, that's not good for your career. It's not good for your team. Trust me: other people know if you're bored or not interested in what you're doing. It's not good for your family. It's not good for the people around you.

Cause the thing is, if you're bored, it probably means you're boring. You're probably talking about the same things 10:00 all the time. Or every time you hang out, you have nothing new to add to the conversation. So don't be boring. Don't be afraid of having extra time, but don't be boring. Go do something with this. This is an opportunity for you.

Alright, now I opened up today's show with one of my favorite songs of all time. It's Angel from Montgomery. And I particularly like the Bonnie Raitt version. And you heard me talk about how the hell can a person go to work in the morning, come home in the evening, and have nothing to say? I want you to think about those words. Maybe you don't even realize you're bored at work. Maybe you don't even realize you've become boring. What are you doing with your life? Life's too short for you just to be going through the motions. So go out there, change something, and go do something that you get really excited about. Even if it's only something that you do 30 minutes a week, I promise you, it's gonna change your whole perspective at work, it's gonna change your whole interactions with your team. Everyone's gonna benefit from it. So that's it. Go get to work.

Before we go, I just want to make sure I always thank my awesome producer, Rob Schulte. Rob, you've been living in New York for nine months now?

ROB: Eleven.

JUSTIN: Eleven months! And how's it going?

ROB: Great.

JUSTIN: Yeah? How many different podcasts do you produce?

ROB: At least nine.

JUSTIN: At least nine? My gosh, are you like the world's greatest podcast producer, or just the busiest?

ROB: I would put myself up there with busy. Maybe not the greatest yet, cause I'm learning every day.

JUSTIN: Oh, snap! Alright, Rob, thanks as always. Shoutout to everybody, be sure to hit me on the social channels, mr_corpo. Send me emails with your work quandaries at mrcorpopodcast@gmail.com. Oh, and by the way, one of our listeners gave me this great idea, and I'm thinking of implementing it, but I'd like to hear a little feedback on what -- what the listeners think. A 1-800-Mr-Corpo hotline. If you have an urgent matter that's happened at work, someone's come in at work and said you're getting promoted, and you gotta negotiate salary tonight. Or you've been fired and you don't know what to do. Or your boss just said something to you and is totally driving you crazy and you have no idea what's happening. Of course you can email me at mrcorpopodcast@gmail.com. But imagine if there was a hotline where you could call and I would answer the phone in real time, and give you the what's what. I thought it was a great idea. I'm gonna talk to Rob about how we implement this. But 1-800-Mr-Corpo, coming to a phone near you.

(music)

New boss? No problem! 99% of people don't know what they should do when they get a new boss so they usually do nothing except worry, wonder and wait (3 W's). MR CORPO explains a simple two-step process that will ensure you make the right first impression with your new boss.

 LISTEN HERE:

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

HOW TO IMPRESS YOUR NEW BOSS

JUSTIN: Now, here's a little secret, between you and me. Over at the counter, the tea is for free! Shalimar, on Polk and Pine. Every week, that's where I dine. Once, twice, thrice, it don't matter. When I eat Shalimar, all the girls scatter. Ha, ha, ha.

(Intro music)

JUSTIN: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mr. Corpo podcast. Today's episode topic is: how to impress the new boss. This is an important topic. I find that 99 percent of people don't have a clue what to do when a new boss comes to work. Most people's strategy consists of the Three W's: worrying, wondering, and waiting. The worrying part is okay. It's good to be worried. This is a new boss who's gonna have a lot of power over you. They're gonna have the power to ruin your life, or the power to improve your life. So it's smart to be worried. It's almost an animal instinct, a survival, an adrenaline, a -- you're in danger what's gonna happen, you're preparing yourself for the worst.

Now, what people choose to do with this worry is where there's a problem. Most people just sit there and they wonder, and they wait. This is way too passive. Most people leave it up to luck. They think, well, if I have a good meeting, maybe my boss will like me. But what if you have a bad meeting? People also like to think, well, maybe we'll have something in common, and maybe they'll like me. Well, maybe you'll have nothing in common. So you can't count on that either. And then, you can't float on your old, previous reputation. Maybe the old boss didn't have time to download the new boss and tell him how awesome you are. And likewise, it could work to your advantage, because they couldn't tell the new boss how bad you are. No matter how you look at it, you cannot sit there. You cannot wonder, you cannot wait. This is the exact wrong approach.

Alright. So, the wrong approach is the Three W's: worry, wonder, and wait. The right approach is the Three M's: make a list, make a meeting, make an impression. You see what I did right there? I took the Three W's and I turned them upside down, and then I made them the Three M's. I mean, I'm practically a genius. But I have to say, in fact, what we are doing here is turning it on its head. Ninety-nine percent of people just sit there and wait to see what happens. I'm calling out to all my listeners and saying, be that one percent. Turn the experience on its head. Take control. And have a very active approach. Alright, let's get to work.

(music)

JUSTIN: Step one: make a list. The minute you find out that you're going to get a new boss, the first thing you need to do is make a list. The goal of this list is to clearly articulate who you are, what's your top priorities, and how you like to work. Now, let's go into more detail about each one of these. The first thing I want you to know about this list is, it has to fit on one page. The second thing I want you to know is, bullet points. The third thing I want you to know? Less words is better. And the fourth thing: clear, easy headlines. Those are just some of the general things I want to make sure you understand when you prepare this list.

Now, let's go into even more detail. I want to go through the three sections of this list. The first section on this page needs to be titled, "Who am I?" And you need to underline this, you need to make sure it really stands out. Now, what I want you to do within this section is focus on two things: personal and professional. So the first bullet point under "Who am I?" is "Personal". Literally write the word "personal" and then a colon, and then I want you to write X, Y, Z, whatever your three things are you want to say about yourself. The less words, the better. You can say, "Skiing, baseball, father of two, traveling, beekeeper." The goal is to make a personal connection first. Your goal is to have your new boss see you as a person, as a human being, as a fellow human being. And if you're lucky, they'll have something in common with you. That's why I want the personal side to go first.

Now, immediately underneath the personal bullet point, I want you to have a second bullet point which says, "Professional". And again, using the same format, use X, Y, and Z. 05:01 The same rules apply. The less words, the better. Now, what you want to put in this professional bullet point, you want to quickly list previous experiences. Levi's, four years, VP Merchandising. Gap, 11 years, VP Merchandising. Then what you want to do is list your current title and then your key responsibilities, and then the people that report to you.

So that's what you want in that first section. The section's called "Who am I?" You're gonna have a brief bullet point about personal things you're interested in, establishing your human connection to this new person. And then the second part of that "Who am I?" section is professional. The less words, the better. Make it really easy, in a snapshot, for them to understand, what was your previous experience, what do you do now, who are you in charge of. It's that simple. That's section one. Let's move on to section two.

Section two is all about priorities. I want you to simply write, "Top Three Priorities" and then number them in bullet points. Bullet point one, bullet point two, bullet point three. Be specific, but at the same time, not too many words. You're gonna be in a meeting with them, you're gonna be able to talk about this. Be specific, but not too many words.

Now, how you choose to organize your three priorities, one, two, three, is up to you. There's a couple different ways you can go with this. You can organize by days. You could say, "30 days, 60 days, 90 days." You could also do it by business opportunity and the size of how many sales you could generate. You could say, "Here's a 1 million opportunity, a 10 million opportunity, a 25 million dollar opportunity." Or you could organize it as, "Here's my business priority, and here's my people priority." It's really gonna be up to you. But the important point is, it's very succinct and no more than one sentence for each bullet point. This is not about writing your life story. This is not the moment to prove everything that you've done throughout your career. This is just to let them know you're thinking about the business and you can find priorities. Your goal is to show the new boss you know what is going on. You are organized and they can trust you. That's it. That's section two.

Now, as we move to section three, section three is: how you like to work. I want you to literally write that as the headline, and underline it. The same way you did, "Who am I?" and the "Top Three Priorities". Big, bold underline so they can clearly see there's three sections to this one page. Now, the goal to section three is to establish a good working relationship with your new boss. That's why we title it, "How you like to work." Of course you're gonna use bullet points. I only want you to have two, maximum three, bullet points under this heading.

Now, some examples of what you might put here are, "I like to get to work early and I like to leave early." Or, "I like to get into work a little bit later, at 9:00, due to kids, or whatever reasons, but I like to work late, so don't worry, I get things done." You know, another example might be, "I like to log onto the computer at night when I'm at home because I put my kids to bed and then I do some work. I just wanted to let you know that." Or you might want to say, "I don't ever check emails on the weekend." Remember what Oprah Winfrey taught us: I spoke about it in my book, How To Write An Email. You teach people how you want to be treated. Your goal is to help the boss be a good boss to you. If you can articulate how you like to be treated, they're more likely to treat you that way. That's a good thing.

Oh, and before I forget, be sure to insist on a weekly one-to-one meeting when you talk about how you like to work. Remember, the new boss equally wants you to like them. You're also reinforcing that you're a human being in this situation. You have quirks. You have things you like. You have things you don't like. You have ways you like to hear feedback, or you like to say, "I'm sensitive to this." Or, "Give me all the feedback. I want to be the greatest person ever." This is your chance to make a first impression, but also make sure they see you as a human being, and that they're gonna treat and interact with you in the right way, which very well should be different than how they treat and interact with the next person and the person after that.

So we've made our one-page list. We had three topics. The first topic was, "Who am I?" You had a personal and a professional section. The second topic was, "Top Three Priorities". One, two, three, one sentence each, specific but not too many words. 10:02 And the third topic was, "How I Like to Work". The less words, the better. What you're trying to say here is, "I'm going to make your life easier." So that was step one. Make the list.

Now, remember, I said there were three M's to being successful at impressing your new boss. The first one was: make the list. Now, let's go to the second step: make the meeting. Now, here's the thing. You don't want to jump all over them on day one. They're gonna be stressed, they're gonna be distracted, they're gonna be nervous. Leave your new boss alone on day one. And maybe even on day two, you give them a little room. I'll let you decide how it's going. But by day three, no matter what, you have to establish contact with the new boss.

Now, if you have a good boss, they will have already introduced themselves to you individually, and they should ask you to set up some time directly with you, one on one. That's if you have a good boss. Now, more likely, if you have a sucky boss, here's what happens. They don't take the initiative. They'll likely be hiding in their office. They're likely staring at a blank computer screen, cause no one's emailing them, they don't know what meetings they're supposed to go to. They're sitting in that office wondering if anybody likes them. Cause remember, your new boss, as scary as they are, as much power as they have over you, at some level, they're just a human being. They're actually an insecure human being in a new situation, they're not sure what to do. Don't lose sight of that. This is just another human being that we're trying to interact with here.

But let's get back to work: back to step two, making the meeting. The easiest and best thing to do is to pop your head into their office and simply say, "Hi." Then I want you to smile. Then I want you to say -- and by the way, don't do some creepy smile. Don't do some fake smile. Don't just stare at them with like a smile on your face, because then, it's gonna look like you're up to something. Just be like a natural smile. Actually, you know what, don't even think about it too much, about your smile, cause then you're gonna have a bad smile. So just smile. Actually, you know what, forget I ever said anything. Just say hi.

But after you say hi, whether you smiled or you didn't smile -- totally up to you, I want you to do what comes naturally -- here's what I want you to say: "Hey, I was going to set up some time for us to connect and talk about what's going on in my world. Is it okay if I set up some time on your calendar next week?" Now, you see what I did there? I took control of the situation, because I recommended the meeting, I told them what it was about, but I also took ownership of scheduling it. And this is really important. Cause if you mention the meeting but then let them try and schedule it, or wait for them to schedule it, you're gonna be waiting forever. So you see, what I did there is, I recommended it and I said, "I'm gonna put it on the calendar next week." There's no pressure that it's tomorrow, they can feel like, "Hey, this person's in control. They're gonna set a meeting. The new boss, of course, is going to appreciate that.

Alright, so now you've introduced the idea of the meeting. The next goal is to actually put it on the calendar. Make sure you add a title, something like, "Intro Meeting, Justin and Michelle". And then in the invite for the meeting, make sure you have a quick sentence or a few bullet points that says, "Here's the purpose of the meeting: who I am, what I'm working on, how I like to work." Now this is important, because this email, this invitation, is actually your first impression. So use bullet points, because bullet points say, "I am organized." Setting the meeting says, "I take initiative." Don't leave it blank. Don't be lazy. Do not send an invite that has no content inside of the invite. That is a huge mistake. That's basically saying, "I'll do things about halfway and then I'll stop, cause I'm kind of lazy." That's what that's saying. So put something in the invite.

Okay. So now onto the meeting itself. That's the easy part. You've already done all the hard work of creating an easy, simple, one-page, bullet point overview. There's really no more work to be done. But here's a little secret, between you and me. Before 5pm the day before the meeting, I want you to send a pre-read to the new boss. I want you to send an email with the subject, "Agenda for tomorrow's one-to-one." Inside the email, I want you to simply write, "Hi, Michelle. I've prepared an easy agenda to help guide our conversation tomorrow. Looking forward to it. Justin." Don't attach a one-page list. Never attach a document to an email. You should operate on the assumption that no one ever, no matter what, 15:00 will ever open your attachment.

Now, think about it. They're gonna get your email on a small device, maybe that format doesn't work on their phone, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Never attach anything to an email. Always include it inside the email. If you read my book, you would already know that. But in case there're some podcast listeners who have made this totally laughable, unbelievable, unacceptable mistake of not buying my book, How To Write An Email, from mrcorpo.com, or amazon.com -- I mean, I can't even imagine that you're listening to this podcast and you haven't bought my book -- but in case you haven't, or in case you have, you would already know: you never attach things to your email.

Alright, so cut your one-page document and paste it into the agenda of the email. It's easy. the point of sending this email is to get double credit. You are organized. You are making their life easy. You are good at what you do.

Now, at the actual meeting, go with the flow. Go through the agenda. At this point, it actually doesn't matter if you go through the agenda or not. You've already won.

(siren sound)

JUSTIN: In fact, I'm going to cancel part three of the three M's, and now I'm gonna say, there's only two M's: make a list and make a meeting. I mean, I'm such an efficiency monster, even in the middle of my own podcast, I was able to cut 30 percent of this episode just to give you time back. I mean, wow. I'm kind of impressed. I'm not sure if you are, but -- but I am.

Alright, now, winner, winner, chicken dinner. Congratulations. You've made a great first impression. Now, what you do with that, and where you go from here, that's up to you. But at least we've gotten you over that initial hump. You've made a good impression, your new boss likes you as a person. They understand how you like to work. And they have a general feeling that you are organized and you know what you're doing. These are all great ways to start a new relationship.

Alright. That's it for today's episode. A few notes before we move on. We are still looking for sponsors. Anyone interested in sponsoring the Mr. Corpo Podcast, I have to tell you, Rob showed me the numbers the other day. We actually have quite a few listeners, and they're global. They're global. But I was pretty surprised at the number. I thought I was somewhere in the friend zone, but I mean, I'm in the like -- almost like -- there's-a-big audience-out-there-listening zone.

ROB: It's actually gone up a little bit since then.

JUSTIN: Really?

ROB: Well, the fact that we're on Spotify.

JUSTIN: Oh yeah. Okay. Well, things are going well. So I'm just saying, if you have a smal business or you want to take out a help wanted ad, or you know, personals, you know, people are always trying to meet people, you could use us to like, read your script or something. Whatever you want. Of course, I've already put in my plug for go buy my book, How To Write An Email. I mean, my gosh. Go to mrcorpo.com, there's full transcripts of every episode for the hearing impaired, along with opportunities to book me for speaking tours, anything like that. And in other news, I was just talking with Rob, the producer, and we have booked a photo studio because we are working on a visual identity for Mr. Corpo. It's gonna be super, super exciting. Can't wait for that. Stay tuned. That's gonna come out later this month.

And we are gonna leave you -- now, if you are -- and we are gonna leave you with something super special today. This goes to a shoutout from a listener whose name is also Justin, so you know I like him. He asked to hear the full rendition of the Mr. Corpo theme music. Now, what everyone doesn't know is, that theme music is an original song, music by Sean Wilson, lyrics by Rob Schulte, our producer, when he was in a band called Beowulf. And what people may not know on top of what they don't know is that I actually met Rob, our producer, while on tour with my band, The Blacks. And Beowulf opened for us. We played a New Years show in Iowa City. And I absolutely fell in love with their music and their antics. But here is the full song, here you go. Over and out. Beowulf.

(music)

Revenge? Cry? Complain? Talk sh*t? Give up? What's the right move when someone screws you over at work? MR CORPO shares his perspective from his personal experience and explains what someone told him 10 years ago that changed everything.

 LISTEN HERE:

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

What To Do If You Get Screwed At Work

JUSTIN: I wear this crown of thorns upon my liar's chair, full of broken thoughts I cannot repair. Beneath the stains of time, the feelings disappear. You are someone else, and I am still right here.

(Intro music)

JUSTIN: Hello, and welcome to today's Mr. Corpo podcast. The topic for today is: what to do if someone totally screws you at work. This topic is incredibly important to me, because about ten years ago, I attended a lecture at Gap, Inc with a special guest speaker who addressed this topic in such a way that it changed the direction of my life at work and also outside of work. Now, I apologize that I don't remember the exact speaker's name, but if anyone listening can tell me, please do so, because I would love to set the record straight. But alright, enough context. Let's get to work.

(music)

JUSTIN: I want you to think about a time you got totally screwed over. It can be big, it can be small, it can be today, it can be last week, it can be last year, it can be three years ago, I don't care. We all have that thing that we carry with us, no matter how long it's been, it still bothers us. I want you to think about that time you got totally screwed, and I want you to describe it to me. I want you to tell me every single detail. Every aspect. I want you to tell me exactly what happened. I want you to tell me who was involved, and why it made you mad. Don't leave out anything.

Okay. Did you find that moment? Was there something that came to mind immediately/ Was there that one time where you totally, really, truly got screwed over? Or are there a ton of those times? Is there one person who always keeps trying to screw you over? Is there someone who just seems to have it out you? My point is, you've found your moment. You've figured out who to blame. You've described every detail. You've perfectly positioned yourself as the victim.

And therein lies the problem. You are the victim. You've allowed yourself to be negatively affected by someone else's actions. In fact, I would guess that you've almost basked in the glory of being screwed over. You've shared this story with other people, you've bragged about it, you've carried this injustice with you like a badge of honor. Does that sound about right? After all, I just asked you if you'd ever been screwed over, and you're still thinking about that thing that happened to you six months ago. So yeah, you're the victim. You're carrying this with you.

But let me tell you, if you're hoping that I'm gonna explain to you how to get even with this person, you're gonna be severely disappointed with this episode. I don't think you should be looking for revenge. I don't think you should be blaming other people. I think you should take responsibility for the situation. And this is the critical point: you can either play the victim, or you can take responsibility.

In this exercise, by asking you to describe in excruciating detail a time when you got totally screwed over, we invited you to play the victim. And it was easy. It was almost fun. Blame everyone else, it's not your fault, you were the victim. But what I want you to do now is, I want you to tell me the same story, I want you to tell me the same situation, I want you to include every single detail, but I want you to take responsibility for what happened.

What did you do that contributed to the situation? What could you have done differently to have avoided this situation? What specific steps would you change in order to create a different outcome? The choice is yours: you can either go through life as a victim, or you can go through life as someone who's willing to take responsibility for their mistakes, learn from their past experiences, and ultimately, take control of your own life.

Now, look. Of course there's gonna be things that happen to you at work which you don't like. Of course other people may try and screw you over. It is going to happen. People are gonna try and screw you over. Or you may in fact get screwed over. 05:03 So the only choice you have is: how are you going to experience it? Are you going to experience it as a victim and carry it with you, let it bother you, take it home with you, distract you from the things that are important, let someone else literally take up all your time and energy? Or are you gonna take responsibility? Are you gonna evaluate the situation, decide what you could have done differently, move on, be smarter, be wiser, and free yourself of the burden of being a victim? That's it. It's that simple.

So we started with this question of: what do you do when someone screwed you over at work? And I may have surprised you here with the answer, which is: you actually don't do anything to that person. You actually don't do anything to seek revenge. You look at yourself first and say, "What could I do different to avoid that situation?" Or, what do I need to say to that person in order to rectify that situation? You've got to take responsibility. That's what I want you to do if you get screwed over at work. And trust me, you're gonna get screwed over.

So let me make this real for you. I have to be honest, it's really not easy for me to think of a time when I got screwed. And the reason is, because for the last ten years, I really haven't been living in that world where I allow myself to experience what's happening at work in that way. But I wanna make an effort, I wanna try and show you an example of this, so I'm gonna reach deep down inside. I'm gonna try and think of sometime, somewhere, where I think I got screwed. And the truth is, you know what, I probably do get screwed at work. People are screwing me over. But I just don't experience it that way. And so even if something happens, I try and think, "Okay, what was my role in that? What could I have done differently, and how am I gonna fix it?"

So, the example that comes to mind, I'm not gonna tell you which company this is, just for political and my own well being. But let's say I was at this multinational company. I worked my ass off for a year. I did all the grunt work. I did all the dirty work. I got into work every day at 6am, and I was doing all the things that needed to get done. I was firing people, I was hiring people. I doing all the little things, the unpopular things. I was making the tough decisions, the things that were gonna set us up for success. And I was clearly articulating to everyone, this is gonna take a year, and we've gotta go through this process of cleaning everything up before we can fix things and move forward and ultimately start growing again.

So I spend a whole year -- I'm going all this work, back-breaking work. Into the office so early, working so hard, caring about every single person. And at the end, about the 11 month mark, I unceremoniously get kicked out of the business. I get sidelined. I get told, "You know what, we don't think you're doing a very good job. Why don't you move over here." And it was at this exact moment, at the exact moment all my hard work's about to pay off, I get kicked out. Now, I wasn't fired. I was just sidelined.

It was at this point that I was either going to be the victim, or I was going to take responsibility for what happened. If I was gonna go down the victim route, then it was an easy route. I could complain to everybody, say how unfair this is, plead my case, complain to everyone, kind of wear it as a badge of honor and say, "Yeah, I got screwed, right?" And talk trash about people behind their backs. And you all know how that would have gone, you know? And it would have felt good and other people would have said, "Yeah, Justin, you got screwed." And it would have reinforced my victimhood and it would have felt great for a moment.

But ultimately, where does that leave me, you know? I'm talking trash on everybody. And then ultimately I'm gonna have to leave the company. And maybe I don't want to do that, or I want to do that on my own terms. So rather than bemoaning my luck -- and trust me, there were moments when I went home and I laid there and didn't sleep at night. There were moments when it really stung, and it really hurt. So I want you to realize that. Just cause I say, "Don't get screwed" or "Don't try and get revenge" it doesn't mean you're not gonna get hurt. Things are gonna hurt. But you've got to figure out how you're gonna process them. Are you gonna process them by blaming other people, or are you gonna step up and claim responsibility?

In my case, I decided to look at it and I said, "How in the world did they get to a decision to kick me out of this business, to sideline me, if I'd been doing all of this hard work, and all of the right things, and it's starting to pay off?" And what I did when I looked at that is, I realized, I'd been working so hard with this immediate team and solving all these issues that I had stopped doing the important work of building relationships, managing up, and making sure I was bringing everyone on the journey with me. My team loved me. The people that saw me every day saw everything I was doing. But the higher ups, and the different people that sat in different countries, 10:02 they couldn't see all of that. They couldn't hear all of that.

And I remember, throughout that year, specific moments where I thought, "I probably should make that extra effort to stay up late and call someone," or, "If I'm visiting you in another place, I should go out to dinner and drinks with you so that we keep up that relationship and we stay connected." And I didn't do those things. I got overconfident that I'm in charge, if I just do a good job here they'll understand that, results will speak for themselves.

But ultimately, I didn't hold up my end of the bargain. And in that role, I not only needed to do the day-to-day, I also needed to be a leader and I good communicator outwards, and shockingly, when I look back on it, just got lazy on that front. And ultimately I can see now, that's why they sidelined me. They didn't see the people stuff. They didn't see all the great morale things that we had done to turn things around.

And ultimately, they made this decision. I still am allowed to not think it was the right decision. But I can accept it, figure out what I did wrong, and that allowed me to let go of it and just move on with my life. And so I guess that's an example I'll use of how I used this idea of victim versus being responsible to work through things that happen to you at work, and take a point of view that allows you to embrace it, look at it for what it is, learn from it, and then be better and go on with your life.

Alright, that took all of my effort to find some way, some reason, some experience that I've had where I thought, "You know what, I might have gotten screwed over right there." I hope that was helpful to make it real. Shoot me your examples in email. Hit me on Twitter. Whatever the case may be. In this case, I bet you'll probably want to send an email rather than Twitter, so everyone doesn't know about it. But hit me up. I'd love to hear your story, talk through it. And if you're struggling with something, let's work through it.

So I'll leave it there. That's what it means to take responsibility versus being a victim.

Let's throw it over to bonus section. Bonus section! Bonus section! Bonus section! Bo-bo-bo-bo-bonus section! Section!

Alright, hi everyone, and welcome to another bonus section of the Mr. Corpo podcast. We have a question, which is coming from our producer, Rob Schulte. Rob, ask your question.

ROB: Hello, Justin. Um, I feel like a lot of people start going, and when they know that they have Friday off, then they're checked out by Thursday. If they have Monday off, then Tuesday's now their Monday, so maybe they're not moving as fast. Is there something that people should do to still stay productive but also feel the benefits of not having those days they have to work?

JUSTIN: My whole philosophy is, if you're not at work, don't think about work. And if you're at work, get your work done as fast and efficiently as possible, so you can leave work as early as possible. So, I guess I don't have anything to say about holiday weekends, other than, take advantage of the situation. If you've got a Friday, Saturday, Sunday off for some reason, figure out how to take a half day on Thursday. And by the way, if you have Monday off, it's gonna be trickier because you can't really take Tuesday off cause that looks really bad.

But all I have to say is, take advantage of situations that are already pre-built-in for taking holidays. Because people won't begrudge you that. So for example, if Friday is gonna be off, figure out how to take Wednesday and Thursday off, and make it a super long week. It's already a feeling of, "This is a strange week, people are leaving the office early, we already have Friday off." So build in those extra days and take advantage of it.

Because there's no excuse for people not using all their vacation every year. It's a super dumb thing. Trust me. Corporate America doesn't care about you. They just want to get some work out of you. They're taking advantage of you. So take advantage of them. Take as many days off as possible. And especially try and sneak those extra couple hours early on holiday weekends. Take off at 2:00. Ask your boss. Say, "Hey, can I get out a little bit early? Cause I want to do X, Y, and Z." There's no boss in the world that's gonna say no to you. Ask nicely. Ask in advance. You're guaranteed to get the extra days off. And then you look like a hero to your friends, you get out of town, you beat the traffic, whatever the case may be.

Alright. Now I'm just rambling, but those are some quick, off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts on holiday weekends at work. Thanks for your question. And one last thing I just want to mention: the lyrics at the top of the show were from Johnny Cash, and the song "Hurt" which was originally written by Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails. And Rob Schulte is on the producing end of things for the episode today. And as always, hit me at mrcorpopodcast@gmail.com if you have any questions in the work-related world. And otherwise, hit me at Twitter at Mr_Corpo. Thanks so much. Over and out.

15:00

Surprises are the enemy. MR CORPO explains why there is one exception to this rule and why you should do it today.

 LISTEN HERE:

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

How To Surprise Your Boss

 JUSTIN: Oops, I did it again. I played with your heart. Got lost in the game. Oh baby, baby...

(Intro music)

JUSTIN: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mr. Corpo podcast. Today we are going to talk about how to surprise your boss. Now, for many and all of my loyal listeners, you're gonna be very surprised by today's topic, because you know I absolutely positively absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt hate surprises. And you should, too. Surprises are the enemy. Surprises are to be avoided at all costs. And surprises are bad.

In fact, I've spend an inordinate amount of time on the Mr. Corpo podcast teaching you how to avoid surprises. Remember, we talked about how to give your boss a pre-read, so that they have a preview of what's coming, and they're not surprised. We're talked about making sure you have a one-on-one weekly with your boss, so that you can get approvals in advance, avoid any double work, and avoid any surprises. We've also talked about having two to three check-ins during a project, so that you get credit for all of your work, and you avoid that dreaded "how's it going?" catch phrase -- which all the Mr. Corpo listeners know actually means, "I don't trust you."

So for all these reasons and more, I always tell you, "surprises are the enemy." Even if it's bad news, it's better to deliver it -- to give that news rather than save it, hide it, avoid it. No surprises, ever.

So if I've said all that, why in the world is the topic of today's episode "How to Surprise Your Boss?" It's simple. Your boss is a human being.

(music)

JUSTIN: Let that sink in for a second. Breathe through this. Your boss is a human being. You see, a funny thing happens on the way to work. You stop being you. You become an employee. Your boss stops being a person, a mother of two, a dad of one, a totally cool guy who likes to drink beer on the weekend, and your boss becomes a boss. And all of a sudden, you treat each other as employee versus boss. You're playing a role. You're treating each other as cogs in this wheel of this corpo world. We lose sight of the fact that we're all human beings. We have feelings. We have hopes. We have dreams. We have insecurities.

So my simple advice today, my simple topic today, is: I want you to go to work and I want you to say something nice to your boss. A specific thank you. A quick acknowledgement that you appreciate everything, or at least something, that your boss has done for you. Now, you can go back to episode 14, which taught everyone how to say thank you. But suffice it to say, send a quick, one-sentence email with the subject, "Thank you." And then just put a one-sentence topic or sentence or whatever you want that just says, "Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for helping me out with this," or, "Hey, what you did for me in that other meeting, I really appreciate it." Or, "Hey, just wanted to randomly say thank you. I really enjoy working with you."

That's it. You're going to surprise your boss. But in a good way. You're gonna re-establish this human to human interaction. You're going to let them know that despite the ups and downs of the day to day, despite everything that's gone on, you just wanted to say thank you, and you appreciate them.

Now, there's a ton of benefits for this. You're creating good will, you're making your boss feel good. They're gonna feel good about you. You're also teaching them how you want to be treated. They're gonna be more likely to thank you in the future if you're willing to thank them. That's it. That's all I want you to do. No excuses, don't put it off until next week, don't listen to this episode and not do anything. I want you to go into work today, I want you to sit at your desk, and I want you to write an email. Write it to your boss. Write it to a co-worker. Write it to an old boss that now, upon reflection, you realize they actually did a good thing for you. Whatever the case may be, at least to one person, surprise them. And say thank you. You'll never regret it. There's no excuse not to do this. Now, go get to work.

05:06

JUSTIN: That's all we have for today's episode. But I think it's a powerful, quick call to action. And in other news around the Mr. Corpo podcast world, you can always go to mrcorpo.com, you can always send us emails at mrcorpopodcast@gmail.com to ask your questions for the Ask Mr. Corpo section. Rob and I just spent an hour brainstorming the future of the Mr. Corpo podcast. We've got a lot of great stuff coming for you. More live streams, new topics, new sonic identities, all new sections, anything and everything's on the table. So if you've got any good ideas, please shoot us a line. Hit us on the social channels at mr_corpo. Hit me at mrcorpopodcast@gmail.com. Whatever you want to do, give us your good ideas, cause we want to make this thing really big and really bold. Give us a shout. Thanks for listening.

(music)